TES Infernal Tutoring #39

Anuraag Das

I asked chat what they thought the best play was in this situation. Here were their suggestions:

1. [[Empty the Warrens]] for sic [[Goblin Token]]s (lolchatlethal)
2. [[Echo of Eons]]
3. Play [[Wishclaw Talisman]], [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]], and pass

Chat convinced me the best line was to high roll [[Echo of Eons]] off [[Burning Wish]] and [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] while leaving one floating mana to continue a potential combo turn. While this line does not guarantee us a kill, I feel a certain urgency to take a shot at ending the game this turn as the enemy deck is very hostile and every turn we give them is another turn to top-deck a haymaker lock piece that stops us from playing the game. Redeploying [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] is already annoying enough, but a fresh [[Chalice of the Void]] or (heaven forbid) [[Green Sun’s Zenith]] into [[Collector Ouphe]] would be devastating. Actually, [[Collector Ouphe]] might be a relic of the [[Underworld Breach]] era, but the point stands — let’s end the match before they get a chance to do it themselves. A small upside — if you [[Echo of Eons]] here, you get rid of the bounced [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]]!

Josh Hughes

I think there is actually a chance that six [[Goblin Token]]s could get to the finish line here, but I still think I would just cast [[Burning Wish]] for [[Echo of Eons]] and go for that line. There is definitely some wisdom in playing out [[Wishclaw Talisman]] and waiting, but I like taking action.

Bryant Cook

We have some interesting decisions here:

1. [[Burning Wish]] for [[Thoughtseize]].
   • If the opponent has a second copy of [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]], this is real bad for us.
   • A drawn [[Chalice of the Void]] really sets us back.
   • The opponent will not have to expend mana on their turn to cast [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]]. Instead they can cast something else at no opportunity cost.
2. [[Burning Wish]] for [[Grapeshot]].
   • If the opponent has a second copy of [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]], this is real bad for us.
   • A drawn [[Chalice of the Void]] really sets us back.
   • The opponent will have to expend mana on their turn to cast [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]], but we also have to spend our turn answering the white nuisance.
   • A possible upside is there is a realistic chance the opponent casts something less relevant due to knowing about the Grapeshot. This would actually be very beneficial, but is definitely a risk/reward line.
3. [[Burning Wish]] for [[Empty the Warrens]].
   • Probably, the worst opportunity line to win? (in my opinion)
   • Do we really expect six [[Goblin Token]]s to win?
4. [[Burning Wish]] for [[Echo of Eons]].
   • Probably the highest opportunity line to win? (in my opinion)
   • Only one available mana post-[[Echo of Eons]]
   • Could draw the opponent into the nuts if you fail to win.
5. [[Wishclaw Talisman]] and pass.
   • You have to spend your next turn activating [[Wishclaw Talisman]] for [[Chain of Vapor]] to essentially end up in the same spot as the [[Burning Wish]] for [[Echo of Eons]] line, but a turn later. Which provides them with another draw-step for [[Chalice of the Void]].
   • If for some reason the opponent doesn’t recast [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] you’re guaranteed to cast [[Ad Nauseam]].
   • Could draw the opponent into the nuts if you fail to win.

I would probably just [[Burning Wish]] for [[Echo of Eons]], use [[Bloodstained Mire]] for [[Badlands]] (don’t want to risk drawning it off of the [[Echo of Eons]] and then not having both combo colored mana), play [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] (by playing this last, we play around [[Force of Vigor]]), and then use the mana to cast [[Echo of Eons]].

AJ Kerrigan

The two options I see here are to play [[Wishclaw Talisman]] and pass the turn, giving us maximum optionality for next turn. In most cases, however, we just end up needing to find [[Chain of Vapor]] anyway and we end up down mana. Instead, I think it makes sense to just [[Burning Wish]] into [[Echo of Eons]]. We’ll have a roughly 50 percent chance of winning right now, and are still in pretty good shape in a lot of the other cases. Waiting just doesn’t provide is that much because a good chunk of our deck is not particularly useful to our end.

Alex Poling

I would cast [[Burning Wish]] for [[Echo of Eons]] and then play and sacrifice the [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] to flashback the [[Echo of Eons]]. This would leave one mana floating after it resolves. I think this gives us the best chance of winning because we could just be able to win from the new seven cards or have access to an answer for the creature that the opponent plays on their next turn.

Alex McKinley

On the face of it, it appears that the only option is to cast [[Burning Wish]] finding [[Echo of Eons]]. In my opinion, there is a not a high chance of winning off that [[Echo of Eons]]. The other line available, however, is to [[Burning Wish]] for [[Grapeshot]] to answer the [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] next turn. However, this line gives the opponent another two draw steps to find another hate bear. For that reason, I think that twisting away the [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] in their hand and a chance at winning the game this turn is the correct line. I would cast [[Echo of Eons]].

Landon Sworts

Definitely take advantage of the window! Cast [[Burning Wish]], retrieve the sideboard copy of [[Echo of Eons]], cast and sacrifice [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]], flashback [[Echo of Eons]].

Daniel Lee

It’s tempting to go for an [[Echo of Eons]] line here, but for once I’m thinking we should play a bit more conservatively. I would activate the [[Bloodstained Mire]], fetching a [[Swamp]]. Then I would cast [[Burning Wish]] for [[Thoughtseize]], likely taking the [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] that we know they have. This would allow me to see the rest of their hand and inform my play for future turns.

Theo Andresier

We could cast [[Empty the Warrens]] for six [[Goblin Token]]s but their [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] will just eat that up and we will be back to square on with our [[Ad Nauseam]] in the graveyard.

I feel reluctant playing a slower/grindier game against a deck that is going to put out a [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] next turn but believe that an [[Echo of Eons]] route is too ‘all in.’ Our opponent’s next turn is set out for them with a bit of permanent hate, and we can answer that with a [[Wishclaw Talisman]] tutored [[Chain of Vapor]] or [[Abrupt Decay]]. I prefer the slower play of obtaining an answer to their hate this turn. I would cast a [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] and then a [[Burning Wish]] to get a [[Grapeshot]] from my sideboard to answer the [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]]. Next turn, I would play out the [[Wishclaw Talisman]], and then look to go off by casting [[Grapeshot]] and then finding a [[Dark Ritual]] to cast [[Ad Nauseam]] off of.

Anuraag Das

Uhhhhh what!? This is probably the craziest Dredge brew I’ve seen in a while, so props for that opponent! Fortunately, we survived the first [[Cabal Therapy]], but it looks like there’s one more in the graveyard and potentially more on their next turn. We can’t [[Ad Nauseam]] this turn, so we need to take game actions that maximize our chances of resolving [[Ad Nauseam]] next turn. If we assume their only interaction is [[Cabal Therapy]] (I mean its Dredge, what else could they have? Scratch that — I don’t think I want to know), then really we’re just resolving this [[Brainstorm]] in a way that best plays to the known information and our overall game plan. We’d put back the [[Ad Nauseam]] and a [[Rite of Flame]], dump our mana into play (Imprint: [[Chain of Vapor]] onto [[Chrome Mox]]), and [[Brainstorm]] on their end step to set up the kill.

Josh Hughes

We can almost guarantee that next turn we will have a [[Cabal Therapy]] target us. I think the best strategic option would be to put back a copy of [[Rite of Flame]] and [[Ad Nauseam]]. We can then play out both copies of [[Lotus Petal]] and [[Chrome Mox]] (Imprint: [[Chain of Vapor]]). If the opponent is able to [[Cabal Therapy]] twice, we can always [[Brainstorm]] on the second one they cast.

Bryant Cook

This seems pretty straight forward. Put [[Rite of Flame]] on top with [[Ad Nauseam]] above it. Play the pair of [[Lotus Petal]], cast [[Chrome Mox]] (Imprint: [[Chain of Vapor]]) and pass. This ensures the opponent will need at least two copies of [[Cabal Therapy]] in order to stop you from winning on your next turn.

AJ Kerrigan

I would put back [[Rite of Flame]] and then [[Ad Nauseam]]. Play out both copies of [[Lotus Petal]] and [[Chrome Mox]], imprinting [[Brainstorm]]. We now have the ability to [[Ad Nauseam]] next turn if they don’t specifically name [[Rite of Flame]], and we have [[Chain of Vapor]] to disrupt them if necessary. Though be careful because they could sacrifice [[Stomping Ground]] to bounce [[Chrome Mox]] and leave us two turns away. Something interesting to consider is depending on how their Dredge goes, it could still be worth bouncing [[Ichorid]] in the draw step to significantly slow the opponent down.

Alex Poling

I would put a [[Rite of Flame]] and the [[Ad Nauseam]] back with [[Ad Nauseam]] being on top and then play out both copies of [[Lotus Petal]] and [[Chrome Mox]] imprinting the [[Chain of Vapor]]. This would leave just [[Rite of Flame]] and [[Brainstorm]] in hand which the opponent knows about. My plan would be to untap and cast the [[Ad Nauseam]] off the top of the deck. My guess would be that if the opponent is going to cast another [[Cabal Therapy]] next turn that they would name [[Brainstorm]] and that wouldn’t matter because it leaves the [[Rite of Flame]] for the fifth mana.

Alex McKinley

The thing to think about is if we have to pass the turn, if the opponent hits another [[Narcomoeba]], what would they name with [[Cabal Therapy]]? I would attempt to avoid this game by putting back both copies of [[Rite of Flame]] and cast [[Chrome Mox]] (Imprint: [[Chain of Vapor]]) to play the second [[Brainstorm]] looking for a [[Dark Ritual]]. If that [[Brainstorm]] misses, I would put myself in a situation where both of the copies of [[Rite of Flame]] are on top of my library. I would then play out the copies of [[Lotus Petal]]. It is incredibly unlikely that our opponent would name [[Ad Nauseam]] with [[Cabal Therapy]]. It is also unlikely that the opponent can reanimate a [[Chancellor of the Annex]] without an insane dredge. This gives the best chance to untap on the next turn and cast [[Ad Nauseam]].

Landon Sworts

We could try to hold up [[Chain of Vapor]] for [[Chancellor of the Annex]], but I think I’m more expecting another copy of [[Cabal Therapy]] from our opponent on the next turn. Let’s pit back [[Rite of Flame]] and then [[Ad Nauseam]]. Play out our artifacts (Imprint: [[Chain of Vapor]] on [[Chrome Mox]]) and pass. We can cast [[Brainstorm]] at will between now and the end of our opponent’s turn. This will let us protect our combo pieces on the top of our library and set us up to combo the following turn.

Daniel Lee

We don’t have the mana to do a whole lot this turn and we’re pretty roughly [[Brainstorm]] locked at this point. To avoid blowouts, I would put back [[Rite of Flame]] then [[Ad Nauseam]] on top. I would play out both copies of [[Lotus Petal]] and pass, keeping my options of [[Chain of Vapor]] and [[Brainstorm]] available. Our opponent cannot use the [[Ichorid]] trigger without exiling [[Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis]] so we’re reasonably safe next turn unless their [[Golgari Grave-Troll]] hits some serious gas.

Theo Andresier

I think we are in a reasonable position here — our opponent does not have [[Bridge from Below]] in the graveyard and, the dredge next turn would have to hit two [[Narcomoeba]] in order to cast [[Dread Return]] in their graveyard. They have no [[Cabal Therapy]] left either so I believe our hand is quite safe. To err on the side of caution, I would play out the majority of my mana rocks this turn and am inclined to put our [[Ad Nauseam]] safely hidden on top of our library.

I would put back the [[Chain of Vapor]] with the [[Ad Nauseam]] on top — Then play out the pair of [[Lotus Petal]] and hold the two [[Rite of Flame]], [[Chain of Vapor]], and the [[Chrome Mox]] hand. Next turn, we have access to , a singular and two mana of any color we want! Easily enough to cast an Ad Nauseam for hopefully the win!

Anuraag Das

Yeah, this one is kind of a bummer. It doesn’t take much to see that [[Chalice of the Void]] on one is super strong given the result of our [[Ad Nauseam]]. We’re at least playing [[Lotus Petal]], [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]], and [[Echo of Eons]] this turn. You could debate between playing out the [[Swamp]] or not, but it’s probably just better to play out the [[Swamp]] (don’t want to risk not hitting a playable land in your new hand). It’s unfortunate, but I guess the point of this scenario is to teach the lesson of taking the best possible play even when the best possible play kind of sucks. I wonder if this was in paper, would it be worth it to try to “Chalice-check” the opponent with [[Veil of Summer]]? I’d probably wouldn’t (turns off our playable two-drops post-[[Echo of Eons]]), but it’s interesting to think about.

Josh Hughes

This scenario seems like a pretty obvious [[Echo of Eons]] line, but we are also one mana away from being able to cast the [[Empty the Warrens]] in our hand, which would probably be enough to win. I think that I would have actually gone for the flip, except for the fact that the opponent has a [[Wishclaw Talisman]] grabbing [[Ratchet Bomb]]. For that reason, I would play out my land, artifact mana, and [[Echo of Eons]].

Bryant Cook

I’m going to assume due to not seeing a land above the [[Chain of Vapor]] in the graveyard that we have not played a land for turn. I would stop, play [[Swamp]], cast the artifacts ([[Lotus Petal]] and [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]]), discard my hand to [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] to make and then use it to cast [[Echo of Eons]]. At this point, you just have to pray to Keranos (God of Storms) that you win.

AJ Kerrigan

Continuing to flip seems pretty dubious. I think our only real option is to play out [[Lotus Petal]] and [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]], sacrifice the [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] for , and cast [[Echo of Eons]] using all of our blue mana. If we have a land drop left, we should first play out the [[Swamp]]. Normally in these situations having floating is useful, but I think it’s relatively important that we are able to use and the [[Lotus Petal]] to [[Abrupt Decay]] and still have access to for [[Dark Ritual]].

Alex Poling

There’s not a ton of options here. I would cast the [[Lotus Petal]] and the [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] and immediately sacrifice it so flashback the [[Echo of Eons]]. This would leave one black mana and a [[Lotus Petal]] to try to win the game after it resolves.

Alex McKinley

Given that there is no one card we are looking for, I would stop here and cast [[Echo of Eons]] after playing the [[Swamp]]. Three mana available is good odds to win the game, and hoping to draw a lot of zero mana artifacts and a tutor off [[Echo of Eons]] is the best way to win this game.

Landon Sworts

We could make [[Goblin Token]]s and try to block and attack appropriately for a couple turns, but I think I’d rather reload our with an [[Echo of Eons]] line. Our Storm count will be higher by going through the motions of a second combo line. With mana floating, finding a winning line with a fresh hand seems reasonable to me.

Daniel Lee

We’re pretty well stuck here. We don’t have enough mana for [[Empty the Warrens]]. We should stop our [[Ad Nauseam]] here, play out [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] and [[Lotus Petal]], then sacrifice the [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] to flashback our [[Echo of Eons]].

Theo Andresier

We’ve gotten quite unlucky here with the [[Ad Nauseam]], but this is still salvageable. The [[Chalice of the Void]] prevents us from casting an easy [[Empty the Warrens]], and now low life total is forcing our hand. I would stop the [[Ad Nauseam]] and play out the [[Lotus Petal]] and the [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] — I would sacrifice the [[Lion’s Eye Diamond]] for and cast the [[Echo of Eons]] that is now in our graveyard using all the blue mana. We hope to draw for a seven that includes a non-fetchland land and a payoff. We do have one mana floating and one [[Lotus Petal]], however. I think we are in pretty good shape.